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Why we dislike Aldonze
From: Joe Sent: 25 Dec. 2000 Message 1 of 3
This subject deserves a thread of it's own.
On a thread entitled "Viewing Lupos videos" I made the following comment on 11 Nov. 2000:
"This is ancient history, but Cindy and I had a serious dispute with Aldonze some three years ago. So I would like to request that die-hard Aldonze fans please keep a low profile in this community."
Then on a thread entitled "Anyone know where the my bitch series movies are?" I more-or-less repeated the above comment on 22 Dec. 2000, saying:
"As I've mentioned previously, Cindy and I had a very serious dispute with Aldonze some three years ago, so I would prefer that Aldonze fans please keep a low profile here at "Cindy and Joe". Thanks."
This resulted in the following comment by "dohbf":
"Question for Joe: it is at least a second time I see you mentioning that three year old tough dispute with Aldonze and asking us (his fans as well as your's and Cindy's) to shut up and stay low. What was it all about? I mean the dispute?"
OK, this is a valid question. But before answering I'd like to point out that I did not ask Aldonze fans to "shut up", just to "keep a low profile". I guess what I'm saying is that because Cindy and I dislike Aldonze we would find it disturbing if there were Aldonze fans here who insisted on singing Aldonze's praises on our community. OK?
The dispute in question occurred in November/December 1997, so in terms of "Internet time" it is indeed ancient history. At that time "Cindy and Joe" were active at www.fistingsex.com, run by a guy who calls himself FeISTyman. We had posted the first set of Cindy pics (the Polaroid ones) in April 1997 and had just posted the second set ("Little Red Randy Hooters") in Nov. 1997.
At the same time Aldonze had become world-famous with his "my bitch" pictures and video clips. There was (still is?) a special section at www.fistingsex.com dedicated to Aldonze's stuff. Aldonze himself was fairly active on the message board at www.fistingsex.com, as was Cindy and myself.
On 17 Nov. 1997 Aldonze posted a message describing his "bitches". Whether these descriptions were truthful or just a sexual fantasy we don't know, but even if it was only a fantasy Cindy and I found his description of "bitch A" and his relationship with her to be quite disturbing. Here is the full text as far as "bitch A" is concerned:
"BITCH A is my official girlfriend, since five years. She is 24, naturally blonde (but for a joke has become a brunette a few months ago), with blue eyes. Is 5ft 2" and weights now 94lbs. She is an executive manager with 14 employees in her office, 9 of whose are males : she enjoys teasing them, going to work with ultra-short mini skirts without panties, and casually dropping things on the ground and bending to take them up. She behaves for the rest with an icy attitude towards them (I must say she is not very loved by her clerks), and she told me that one of her favorite jokes is to leave a clearly visible wet spot on her chair, walking out the room and then coming suddenly back, catching them surrounding the chair and sneering "go on with the work !".
She is a complete bitch, with a strong drive for pain and humiliation, maybe actually for she is a "woman in career". Both her holes are quite widely open, and often she stretches them herself (certain can and bottles series).
She is also very active in inflicting herself pain (the self-needling series are an example), but her biggest pleasure lies in being tied and flogged hardly and long. She usually experiences orgasm simply in the act of being flogged, and I have often to restrain myself to accomplishing with her begs of harder and harder hitting : in fact, she did pass out during the beatings four times already, and now I am very careful to stop when she doesn't react anymore (you'll see a microphone close to her mouth in some of the beating series).
Her "forbidden dream" is to be beaten, tortured and raped by three or four black men. I was basically against it (I'm a jealous guy !), but she says that this would not mean being unfaithful, since she would use them as mere "tools", and so also she wants them black, to add further humiliation. This I didn't like too, sounding quite racist ; but on the other hand I figured that the black friends would in return have the opportunity to punish her very hard for her racist thoughts. So I'm thinking to arrange the meeting for her birthday, in a couple of months ; I would like to hear your opinion on this matter !"
(The debate gets a bit complicated so I've chosen to show Aldonze's text in this font and Cindy's text in this font.)
On 1 Dec. 1997 Cindy posted the following message, which I quote in its entirety:
"Finding Aldonze's pictures generally cold and mechanical, and void of any particular display of enjoyment on the part of the participating women (in contrast to the joyous celebration of great wild sex so evident in the beautiful pictures of BJ), I have paid very little attention to the various debates about the word "bitches". I personally would not care to be referred to in such a negative way, but I have no problem with others finding that arousing. And I definitely have no problem with those that do not, and say so.
However, Joe drew my attention to the posting that Aldonze made on Nov. 17, describing his "bitches", and frankly I found that extremely depressing reading. To my regret most of the reactions to Aldonze's posting have scrolled off the message board; those that are left are all from men, and nobody seems to think that there is cause for anything other than lots and lots of praise.
My question to you all is: Is everything and anything OK as soon as it is covered with a nice, shiny veneer of sex and loudly proclaimed to be protected by freedom of speech? I realize that many Americans are greatly traumatized by the experience of living in such a repressive society, but this knee-jerk reaction of fear to anything perceived as a threat to your freedom of speech is extreme. Is the question of right and wrong automatically suspended when this freedom is invoked?
Doesn't anybody besides me see something wrong with this quote:
> She is an executive manager with 14 employees in her office, 9 of whose are males: she enjoys teasing them, going to work with ultra-short mini skirts without panties, and casually dropping things on the ground and bending to take them up. She behaves for the rest with an icy attitude towards them (I must say she is not very loved by her clerks), and she told me that one of her favorite jokes is to leave a clearly visible wet spot on her chair, walking out the room and then coming suddenly back, catching them surrounding the chair and sneering "go on with the work !".
Aldonze, am I supposed to find this sexy and admirable? The woman is engaged in flagrant sexual harassment of the employees, whose welfare she is supposed to ensure. I find it reprehensible in the extreme, and just about as unsexy as anything can get. It is never OK to force your own sexuality on unwilling victims who have no way of declining to participate!
> She is also very active in inflicting herself pain (the self-needling series are an example), but her biggest pleasure lies in being tied and flogged hardly and long. She usually experiences orgasm simply in the act of being flogged, and I have often to restrain myself to accomplishing with her begs of harder and harder hitting: in fact, she did pass out during the beatings four times already, and now I am very careful to stop when she doesn't react anymore (you'll see a microphone close to her mouth in some of the beating series).
Am I supposed to think that Aldonze is a very loving and caring person because he stops beating her when she doesn't react any more? Am I supposed to think that a woman that doesn't react any more is sexy?
Is it OK to beat a woman to unconsciousness? Is it OK to beat a woman to unconsciousness, when she asks you to? There are lots of women out there in the world who will put up with (and even "ask for") all kinds of abuse for various reasons, such as extremely low self-esteem, or a history of incest, or other forms of early sexual or physical abuse. Is it OK to give these women the abuse that they "ask" for? I think not!
Aldonze, you obviously find all this terribly exciting and acceptable. One wonders why you find it necessary to keep covering your own sorry ass by reminding us repeatedly that these "perverted" women made you do all these nasty things. If anything is wrong here you certainly are not to blame!
I find it very hard to ignore the underlying story of a bunch of emotionally disturbed and vulnerable women, who are confusing physical self-abuse with sex.
Aldonze, either you are a consummate liar, who knows how to concoct a nice sexual fantasy for those whose imaginations run in these tracks. Or else you are exploiting a group of vulnerable women in order to promote yourself to fame in the news groups. The former is fine as long as the fantasies that hurt people are kept in the realm of fantasy only. The latter is never OK.
I know, I know, I'm pissing in your parsley patch, as we say here in Denmark. Everybody was having so much fun until that spoil-sport Cindy started to talk about draggy things like the misery of real human beings. But, quite frankly, if it takes a beating to unconsciousness for a woman to achieve an orgasm (which is always and ever fabricated in one's head), do you people on FeISTyman's message board really believe that she is beyond all reasonable doubt an emotionally healthy person? And if there is a small nagging doubt in your mind do you really want to contribute to that beating by cheering Aldonze on with praise and cries for more?
Like you all, I believe in freedom of speech, but I also believe in the responsibility to speak up when one sees people doing wrong, something which should not be confused with an attempt to censor. And wrong is often a matter of where one draws ethical and moral lines in the sand. We do not all draw them in the same place.
I have told you where I draw my lines, when it comes to forcing one's own sexuality on others, or exploiting other people for personal sexual pleasure. Where do you draw yours?
Some of you seem to regard women as mere objects, whose main function is to provide men with orgasms. You post peevish calls for "no more ugly women". Have you noticed that there are very few women on the message board and in the chatroom? I'll give you three guesses why......
Later the same day, 3 Dec. 1997, Aldonze replied, and I quote his reply in its entirety:
"normally I don't get angry easily, but now the cup is full and I feel the need to answer to you on the different points
: Finding Aldonze's pictures generally cold and mechanical, and void of any particular display of enjoyment on the part of the participating women I have paid very little attention to the various debates about the word "bitches"
I'm sorry but I can't see the slightest sequentiality in your thought. You can like or not the pix, but what has this to do with a debate on the word "bitch"? It's clear that, for some reasons I miss, you just felt the need to say something gratuitously offensive without any logical attainance with the matter of debat. BTW I doubt you looked at the pictures (or the AVIs), or you couldn't honestly mantain your affirmation that there is no satisfaction on the faces of the girls (at least when they're clear)
: ... the posting that Aldonze made on Nov. 17, describing his "bitches", and frankly I found that extremely depressing reading.
It's a free world, cindy, and anyone can get depressed in the way he wants... personally I found extremely depressive your pictures, but I thought that would be nicer not to tell you, since your phisical appearance is not entirely your fault. Simply I didn't look at them anymore, but I didn't have the rudeness to tell everybody about my personal feelings about them
: My question to you all is: Is everything and anything OK as soon as it is covered with a nice, shiny veneer of sex and loudly proclaimed to be protected by freedom of speech? I realize that many Americans are greatly traumatized by the experience of living in such a repressive society
If I were in mood to treat you with the same offensive sufficiency, I could honestly say that we all know how freedom-loving,courageous and bold all the Danish are (they proved it in the last war, not shooting even a rifle to the invading Nazis and keeping their goverment quietly under Hitlerian rule... at least until the war was clearly lost for Germany)
: Aldonze, am I supposed to find this sexy and admirable?
Again, you CAN'T tranfer on me your thoughts... only because you eagerly need to be praised and appreciated, dont think that everybody has the same complex...I don't say things to be admired... I say them because they are true, and you know if you have read the message in question that I don't hide my disapprovation of her on certain matters
: Is it OK to beat a woman to unconsciousness? Is it OK to beat a woman to unconsciousness, when she asks you to?
I'm saying exactly the contrary...it's clear in my message that I don't want to beat her unconscious, and I have to be very careful not to do it... any bona fide reader could understand it, therefore not you
: Aldonze, you obviously find all this terribly exciting and acceptable.
What I find is my business and you are not entitled to tell me what or how I feel
:One wonders why you find it necessary to keep covering your own sorry ass
Up to now I tried to be polite, but now it's obviuosly worthless, so I'll answer in your same "lordish" way
: I find it very hard to ignore the underlying story of a bunch of emotionally disturbed and vulnerable women
Well it's great you find something hard (doesn't happen very often to you, I suppose)
: Aldonze, either you are a consummate liar, who knows how to concoct a nice sexual fantasy for those whose imaginations run in these tracks.
Yes, it's clear that I made all the pics with water colors
:Or else you are exploiting a group of vulnerable women in order to promote yourself to fame in the news groups
your hunger for fame is really amazing... but thanks God I don't have your sickness
: Like you all, I believe in freedom of speech
yes, as long it's you who is speaking
: but I also believe in the responsibility to speak up when one sees people doing wrong
no thanks, we don't need second hand Jesuit teachers
:You post peevish calls for "no more ugly women".
so finally we got it... it's THIS that hurts you, poor heart... mummy has made you like a mountain of rotten meat and you suffer for it honey??? then better hide those photos...
As a last word: if you have such a great opinion of your feeble-minded babbling to feel the need to repost them after the MB crush, I feel free to tell you: hide in your hole and don't breake my b. any more
To make a long story short(er), Cindy then posted a beautifully sarcastic reply to Aldonze's reply, which I can post here if anyone is interested. Then FeISTyman unbelievably came out on Aldonze's side and reprimanded Cindy and gave Aldonze an apology! Cindy and I then left www.fistingsex.com, requesting that all of our material be removed, which I believe FeISTyman did - don't know as we've never been back since.
So, there you have it. I hope that anyone who has read all of the above can understand why Cindy and I dislike Aldonze, and would prefer not to see him being praised here on our community.
From: zappaz1 Sent: 26 Dec. 2000 Message 2 of 3
Thank you Cindy and Joe!.. for bearing all this with us.. and listing your very logical and very personal reasons to explain how you feel.
I for one agree fully with your opinion that sadism and support for dangerous masochism has no place in what this Club has "ever" been about. For sure, it is not what the reputation of this activity should be about!
I hope that public view will _never associate_ fisting and erotic vaginal stretching with cruelty of any sort (self inflicted or upon others). Such would naturally be a total turn off to me. I recognize that there are some who have such thoughts, and I hope they can recognize reality from play (or just the "fun" of role playing activity). I hope they will avoid any and all real trauma, either to themselves or others.. reserving such thoughts to just "a tease without-the-hurt".
My primary concern, and the very reason that I only support _This Particular Club_ is my desire to make our activity one that is highly respectable. Some in the past have given our activity a very much UNDESERVED reputation associated with the infliction of trauma on others or trauma to oneself. From both a Moral and a Medical standpoint that detraction is despicable. This is an activity I enjoy personally. More and more people are starting to give us a justly deserved and stellar reputation!!
Trauma (mental or physical) is a seperate and despicable activity from ours, as the topic of this Club is the most loving and erotic activity possible (including the whole spectrum of other sexual activities). Just ask any of the many loving couples who are amongst our members. They are only here because this is a very highly respectable activity.. which they love! The main problem in the past is a lack of real knowledge about our subject. Without that basic factual knowledge, there can only be a relative few who will experience it (and who _naturally_ will just love it, once having experienced it). A purpose of this Club is to be both entertaining and educational.
Creating and maintaining this Club has been a labor of love by Cindy and Joe. Their only reward is the friendship and association with others who also want our activity to rise above that lowly degradation.. they just described above.
Fortunately only a very very small minority faction detract from the supreme reputation that our wonderful activity deserves. I have seen very very little of that on this Club.
Great strides have taken place over the Internet as a Whole during the last few months, that further elevates our activity toward its rightful place as "The Most Erotic of all Sexual Activities".
Again... Thank you Cindy and Joe!
From: dohbf Sent: 28 Dec. 2000 Message 3 of 3
Thanks Joe! Boy, the guy (Aldonze) is weird. Seems like he is trying too hard and over reacting. Until I read your message I always wanted wanted to get in touch with Aldonze and find out more about him and his women.Though I did dislike his "bithch" info files. I think they (descriptions) are stupid and childish. They really seemed to be fantasies and poorely written ones. Anyway, I do not think I would like to chat with the guy.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to Cindy and Joe!