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Message: Concerned about the modified gargantula

From: Farmhand_ND Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 1 of 17

I along with many others in the club am really turned on by the modified gargantula (using the tube to make it inflate into a ball inside the vagina).

However, I am concerned that using it this way could could be dangerous. If the tension on the constricted rubber becomes to high, or if a rough edge on the tubing were to cause a stress point, the gargantula could rupture and the burst of air into the vagina could very well be fatal. I do hope people realize there is a risk and will take extra precautions when using this idea.

From: Joe Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 2 of 17

Thanks for your message, Farmhand_ND.

Damn it, but I really miss Zappaz. He would probably have had an opinion as to whether or not the "Gargantula in a tube" gadget is dangerous or not.

I wonder if Tyjardia is still around? Or any other doctor? If so, please let us all know what you think.

In general, I think that inflatables rupturing while partially inside the vagina is not an uncommon occurence. I seem to recall it being talked about twice on this message board, but I can only find the one occurrence: http://cindyandjoearchive.com/Messages/Cat14/msg00430.htm

I think that it's important that we do understand that we're talking about the inflatable "rupturing", and that it is not an "explosion". The word "explosion" implies that something (air, bits of rubber, whatever) is propelled with force, and that is not what we're talking about happening, at least not inside the vagina. The air and the rubber are in a "steady state" condition in the vagina because the air pressure inside the inflatable almost matches the tension of the vaginal walls surrounding the inflatable. If/when a rupture occurs the air can escape from the inflatable, but so what? There is nothing that imparts energy to push anything anywhere. If anything goes anywhere, it is outwards, out of the vagina where the ambient air pressure is less than the air pressure in the inflatable and less than the tension from the vaginal walls.

(Sorry if this sounds rather technical. My background training as an engineer is showing itself, I'm afraid. :-)

I can see that the "Gargantula in a tube" gadget changes the situation somewhat, in that there is no longer a completely clear passage out of the vagina in case a rupture occurs. So I guess your concern, Farmhand_ND, is that some of the air might go into the uterus instead of leaving the vagina, and if so, then I agree that it could be dangerous.

On the other hand, this usage of the inflatable means that it is completely enclosed in the vagina, which is applying an external force almost equal to the force of the air pressure, so there's not much force to cause a rupture. This is unlike the normal case where part of the inflatable is outside the vagina and only exposed to the ambient air pressure, which is less than the internal air pressure. It's this difference between the internal and external pressure that normally causes a rupture.

So until a more knowledgeable person has a better opinion, my recommendation will be to be careful, check that the rubber of the inflatable is in good condition and check that the end of the tube does not have sharp edges.

Joe

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 3 of 17

Joe is right, Zappa would be perfect to answer this question. However, I believe your concerns are somewhat exaggerated. I believe that the creator of the gargantula intended that a smooth end be used so that it did not tear the rubber.

Furthermore, I remember a story that I believe was posted here. A female member was using an inflatable device that ruptured inside her. She said the noise gave her quite a scare, but in the end she and her partner began laughing at the site.

Soze

From: Farmhand_ND Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 4 of 17

I can't recall where I read it, but it was an authoritative document that stated that air should NEVER be introduced into the vagina as it can be fatal.

As far as the pressure differentials, it simply cannot be true that the pressure from the vagina walls will equalize the inflated dildo. The pressure in the dildo has to be quite high to expand it, especially with such a reduced surface area. I can only imagine that if the balloon did burst, it would inject air into the vagina with quite a force. I truly hope we don't hear of such an accident occurring. Until we get an authoritative answer, I hope the members experimenting with be cautious.

From: Joe Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 5 of 17

Soze,

> I remember a story that I believe was posted here.

Yes, I could remember that story too, but couldn't find it at first. I went back and looked again and found it this time: http://cindyandjoearchive.com/Messages/Cat14/msg00231.htm

From: Joe Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 6 of 17

I've shown this message thread to Cindy, and together we searched the Internet and came up with a couple of relevant links:
http://www.tomarken.com/content/res/articles/2002/vag.shtml
http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1859.html

To be on the safe side we've decided to withdraw that video clip until further notice. We may make it available again later if we become convinced that there isn't any danger, but until then we'd rather err on the side of safety.

Also, at this time we're not recommending that anyone try playing with devices of this kind.

If this device really is dangerous, then we regret that we have perhaps encouraged people to do something dangerous.

Cindy and Joe

From: Blitzppp Sent: 17 Sep. 2002 Message 7 of 17

Hi Joe,

The two cases of inflatable rupture reported on this site were just "surprises"and not trauma.

The concern is about air embolism (or air entering the uterus and then a vein near the placenta, causing an air embolis).

The only reported cases of that appear to be where very hard air pressure is blown into the vagina of pregnant women. Most doctors still advise against blowing hard air pressure into the vagina... even if not pregnant... as a precaution (see Zappaz's posts on this).

So the question is, "will the air pressure from a ruptured inflatable cause air embolism?"

Air pressure goes to the point of least resistance, and therefore to the opening of the vagina (unless of course, the opening is closed by someone blowing into it). Women have "vaginal farts" or vaginal flatus all the time when they strain hard and compress air inside the vagina... and then it is suddenly expelled when the vagina opens.

There is some air inside the vagina all the time and straining for a BM or any abdominal muscle contraction can bring pressures of a few pounds per square inch. Fortunately for pregnant women, when this happens, the vaginal opening is just is pushed open by the compressed air, and a vaginal fart is expressed. There has never been a case of embolism from this sort of normally compressed air (that can escape).

I think the fear about possible danger of embolism from rupture of inflatables is unjustified. Any air would just cause a big "vaginal fart" like in the two instances on our site reported. It would get your attention, but not hurt anthing... but your pride.. LOL

Maybe if one were pregnant doing "any" vaginal stretching should require a Doctor's opinion like Zappaz recommended, otherwise a huge vaginal fart would get you and your partner's attention... LOL

From: Leeann Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 8 of 17

As a former foresnic specialist I remember a case where a female body was
found on the bathroom floor. She was also partially naked. There was an enema
hose next to the body but no bottle attached.

An autopsy revealed air embolism as the cause of death and that she was
pregnent. The victum had attempted a self induced abortion by blowing air
into her womb by inserting the enema tube into the tip of her cervix and them
blowing.

Ex Cop

From: jballs Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 9 of 17

Why not use a liquid like warm water to inflate the toy. if it rupters you'll just be wet.

From: Leeann Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 10 of 17

Air can be displaced ..... Liquid can't!

From: Joe Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 11 of 17

Cindy and I may be over-reacting, but we really wouldn't want to encourage someone to do something that resulted in them getting hurt or dying.

One point Cindy made in our discussions yesterday was that there is probably a natural tendency for men to be less concerned about a potential health threat that only affects women. Just like women are probably less concerned about a health threat that is only related to penises or testicles.

What we would really like to hear is an opinion from a doctor.

As a person with some engineering training, I have a couple of comments about the technical aspects.

Farmhand_ND, you say this: "The pressure in the dildo has to be quite high to expand it, especially with such a reduced surface area. I can only imagine that if the balloon did burst, it would inject air into the vagina with quite a force."

It's true that some of the air pressure is being counteracted by the stretching of the rubber, but I think more of the air pressure is being counteracted by the stretching of the vagina. This ratio will become dominated by the stretching of the vagina when the vagina gets stretched to the maximum size it has currently been stretched to. This became obvious in the clip cindyv15.mpg, where the Inflatable Gargantula basically stopped expanding inside Cindy's vagina and was only expanding outside.

Blitzppp, you say this: "Air pressure goes to the point of least resistance, and therefore to the opening of the vagina (unless of course, the opening is closed by someone blowing into it)."

The problem with the "Gargantula in a tube" gadget is that it may completely block the opening into the vagina and thus prevent the air from coming out that way. In the device I had created the tube itself was pretty well blocked by the Inflatable Gargantula, and the tube was fairly large (50 mm = 2 inch in diameter), so it would fill the opening to the vagina for many women. Even for a woman who has a well-stretched vaginal opening, like Cindy, I can imagine a situation where the inflatable ruptures at the far end and the remaining rubber together with the plastic tube forms an air-tight seal over the vaginal opening, as "seen" from the inside.

If anyone, especially any doctor or person with medical training, has an opinion we would really like to hear it.

Joe

From: Joe Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 12 of 17

jballs,

Your suggestion of using warm water instead of air could be a "solution" to this problem. I'll talk to Cindy about trying it. But do you know if the bulb pump, which is intended for pumping air, will work under water and pump the water?

Joe

From: Blitzppp Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 13 of 17

Joe, you bring up a good point.

The reason for making the ball wand is that the Gargantula has an equalizing pressure exerted from the vagina itself and this causes the outside portion to swell more. This proves the point that any rupture would could not lead to a "greater" pressure inside the vagina than already existed.

A rupture of the inside rubber would also have the open 2 inch tube to push the ruptured bag and air pressure through and relieve the inside pressure causing a vaginal fart through the wand (which is open in the models made so far). Also if a lady is able to take the 2 inch wand there should be as much room for a vaginal fart between the wand and the vagina as a lady would have just sitting on her closed vagina and straining.

But the main point you made about the pressure inside the vagina being at least as much as that inside the Gargantula is what proves that such a pressure level with air "lready inside"the vagina happens all the time with women straining on air already inside the vagina while they are sitting with their vagina closed. This normal air pressure causes no air embolisms.

Maybe pregnant women should not strain hard while sitting with the vagina closed, but even there the pressure must open the vagina at a pressure low enough to prevent air going to the placenta inside the uterus... otherwise it would not be safe for pregnant women to strain... which they do all the time.

From: jballs Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 14 of 17

I think it will pump water only a little slower,make sure the water is not to hot or cold.

From: Blitzppp Sent: 18 Sep. 2002 Message 15 of 17

jballs,

The bulb would have to be immersed in a bottle of water (big enough to get your pumping hand into) to use water instead of air. Like you say it would be a slower process. To save time getting the water back out, a hose could be pulled off from the inflation bulb.

I never found any warnings about air inflatable toys breaking and causing problems (in a search of the internet) and none of the sales sites I searched for inflatables have any warnings. Inflatables don't last forever and I am sure thousands have ruptured in use... LOL Also, I found no medical reports of problems.

From: Chris & Julie Sent: 19 Sep. 2002 Message 16 of 17

For clarification purposes, regarding our above mentioned bursting dildo; the point of rupture was actually external to the vagina, which caused a rapid deflation rather than a high-pressure injection.
Furthermore, the 'made in China' version in question was considerably smaller than the Gargantula but ... hey, ya gotta start somewhere.

C&J.

From: Blitzppp Sent: 19 Sep. 2002 Message 17 of 17

I could not find where Dr. Kegel had any warnings about any possible danger from rupture of his air inflatable ball. The Kegel type manometers still sold do not mention warnings about embolism from air bag rupture.

Kegel had his patients use this inflatable to squeeze the vaginal muscles onto... to raise the vaginal pressure higher than the pressure already inside the inflatable and therefore measure the muscle contracting pressure created inside the vagina.