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Message: To Zapper Re: The Use of Lubricants

From: Libj1 Sent: 07 April 2001 Message 1 of 10

I have a question regarding the menopausal women out there and the appropriate vaginal lubricate to use.From personal experience, sometimes the lubricant is necessary and other times it is not. Being a professional, what would you recommend in readying for fisting. Much appreciate your advice.
-Libj

From: zappaz1 Sent: 07 April 2001 Message 2 of 10

Hi, the archives here should have lots of information about lubricants, but in general water soluable lubricants such as KY or some cheaper generic is used. Certainly I would not use saliva, as some do, because infections could result from its germs.

From: porcupine Sent: 20 April 2001 Message 3 of 10

Zappaz, what kinds of infections? Are you suggesting the risk of infections is a reason to avoid oral sex?

From: zappaz1 Sent: 21 April 2001 Message 4 of 10

Saliva can sometimes cause infection. It always has very many types of germs and the types change especially if you have a sore throat, stomatitis, gum infection, vincent's angina, or very many other conditions. If some of these germs and viruses are pathogenic, there is always a possibility of passing on an infection. Even many viruses can be found in saliva including hepatitis. Think about why dentists are now required to use gloves. As a general rule, if you are not often with someone.. use protection... gloves, etc.

Many people do use saliva for a lubricant, but I would not recommend it.

Surprisingly oral sex is not often associated with infections in the news, but I personally am suspicious there is some danger... mostly a danger in couples who are not regularly together and because of that, do not share the same types of germs and viruses. This can be a problem where one or both partners are promiscuous. (from the Congressional Impeachment record.. even Monica stayed away when her mouth herpes flared up.. as they did not like condoms... lol)

I have seen some cases that (I knew for sure) transmitted infections in this manner. Any study on this would be very difficult to conduct... LOL

From: porcupine Sent: 25 April 2001 Message 5 of 10

This is extremely interesting but somewhat disaheartening, as my girlfriend and I both enjoy oral sex from every perspective and do not want to give it up. There is however, this lingering problem she has with very severe and painful bladder infections. For a time she suspected that fisting was somehow the cause of these infections, so now prior to fisting I religiously clean and brush my fingernails, scrub up with disinfectant soap, and last use a liquid hand sanitizer before going near her. Still the problem persists, with an infection occurring about once every 60 to 90 days. Subsequent to oral sex and during fisting or intercourse I always use saliva in combination with KY and/or Astroglide for the ultimate in lubrication.

The following may be important:

1. She had infrequent bladder infections before we met.
2. I was the first person to ever have the honor of going down on her.
3. We have had a monogamous relationship for over 10 years.
4. She knows well all the right things to do to prevent infections.

Lastly, would mouthwash kill enough bacteria to bring the risk of infection down to an acceptable level? Surely there is a certain risk of infection no matter what precautions one takes in any sexual encounter. Said another way, is there a way to make oral sex reasonably safe?

Doc, I am certain I speak for many other members of this community when I say that you perform a truly humanitarian act of kindness in sharing your knowledge with those of us with raging libidos, twisted perversions, and the desire to be still be thoughtfull and caring lovers.

From: Joe Sent: 25 April 2001 Message 6 of 10

porcupine,

You say "She knows well all the right things to do to prevent infections." I'm wondering if this includes peeing immediately after having sex to "wash out" any germs that have gotten into the urinal canal and are on their way up to the bladder.

This is a tip I've first heard about as a good idea for men to do after having anal sex, and I try to remember to do it myself on the occasions when Cindy and I engage in anal sex. We don't do anal sex very often and I did get a bladder infection once when I forgot to pee afterwards, but otherwise the trick has worked.

Joe

From: porcupine Sent: 27 April 2001 Message 7 of 10

Joe,

Thanks for the tip, but on the advice of her doctor she has been religiously peeing after sex for years. She also wipes front to back, drinks lots of water, drinks concentrated cranberry juice (even though she knows it doesn't help,) gets plents of rest and exercise, and irrigates her pee hole with a dilution containing tea tree oil after sex. Nothing seems to help.

If you have any other ideas we would be grateful to hear them.

From: zappaz1 Sent: 28 April 2001 Message 8 of 10

Hi, it may seem like a chore, but douching shortly afterward sometimes helps avoid bladder infections.

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 28 April 2001 Message 9 of 10

Read your discussion on the UTI problem, and I thought I would add a little of my experience here. My wife has had a similar problem for many years now (like 10). About 6 years ago, we got so frustrated by the situation that we started consulting with many doctors to fix this "problem". Probably the best thing for the prevention of UTI's was the use of the "after sex" pill, or macrobid (sp?). This cut the occurance down to maybe every few months. Aside from that, we now religously use lubrication EVERY time we have sex. I am SURE Zappa can explain this better than I, but from my reading on this subject, the reason for the infection is that bacteria is pushed up the urethra during sex. This can be somewhat avoided to some degree with lube because your penis won't shove bacteria up the urethra as easily.

ANYHOO.... with the use of the pill, the lube, and urination after sex she has only experienced a UTI maybe twice a year. Not too bad considering.

One more thing, as far as the Cranberry juice goes, I am not sure why you don't have faith in it. After an infection occurs, it has been medically proven to shorten the infection time. The acid in the cranberry juice is very effective in killing the bacteria.

Soze

From: zappaz1 Sent: 29 April 2001 Message 10 of 10

Macrobid is an antibacterial (it is a long acting form of furadantin(R) or nitrofuradantin that is taken only twice a day). It is much more effective than cranberry juice.

Many other agents are used for this purpose that are also more effective than cranberry juice, but they all require a prescription.

If you mention to your doctor you get bladder infections after "sex" and want to know if it is safe to take such a "pill" he might prescribe something.

The "honeymoon cystitis" sometimes carries over for many years to those susceptible to getting such a cystitis after sex... and antibiotics can help to avoid attacks.

In those that get this easily, remember to minimize germs as mentioned here and elsewhere on this site.

Someone mentioned coitus by urethra in a recent post!

There are medical cases of this... and most had very severe infections with some deaths. This results in cystitis and later an infection known as ascending pyelonephritis. This can result in septicemia, kidney failure and death. Never put things in the urethral opening (pee hole).