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Message: Vaginal Fisting after Hysterectomy

From: UsManiacs Sent: December 14, 1999 Message 1 of 13

Hi,
I thought this topic might be interesting, especially to me since I have recently had a hysterectomy and my biggest fear was that: I wouldn't be able to enjoy fisting anymore, it wouldn't feel as good without a cervix, the fist could break through into my abdomen, etc. Some of my fears were totally irrational, but try asking any GYN about fisting and you'll be looking for a new gyn unfortunately. Speaking of which, is there a resource for fisting-friendly docs by state anywhere???

Anyway, I have to report that within 2 months of my hysterectomy I was back to normal fisting activities with just as much pleasure as before! The only difference is I don't lubricate naturally as well as before (because I had my tubes & ovaries out as well, throwing me into menopause at 36, oh joy!).

Would love to hear from any others who want to discuss this.
Gina Talia

From: UsManiacs Sent: December 16, 1999 Message 2 of 13

Hi,
Well as I said I have no problems with it, and I have noticed I don't like it as deep now as I used to (it hurts if it's as deep and hard as we did it before). Now my goal is to stretch wider instead. I am very careful to listen to my body and if something hurts, I stop, or if I hurt the next day, I give it a break. But for the most part we fist every time we have sex which is many times a week, without a problem.

I have the vaginal hysterectomy with cervix removal. I remember asking the gyn/surgeon if it would make my vagina shorter and he looked at me like I was nuts! Then he said "Not at all". I think he lied. Sigh. I have been unable to find a gyn who accepts my lifestyle, or who will even listen to any sexual questions I might have regarding my lifestyle. If I can't ask my gyn, who else am I supposed to ask in the medical profession? Sad.

That's why sites like this are important, thought they don't replace real medical advice (although some docs know alot less than we do about it I have found!). I remember early in my fisting adventure, my vagina was cut by a badly designed toy. I had to go to a gyn because it was bleeding and painful. The Dr. told me I shouldn't fist at all--he was against it. Instead I ended up posting my questions at fistingsex.com and getting the answers there.
Gina

From: zappaz1 Sent: December 16, 1999 Message 3 of 13

Gina, I have decided to put a file in the "Files" section called: "Surgery and Depth" to try to answer some general questions about this subject. It is one of the "most common" questions I have had to answer in the past. It is not a simple question, so rather than "write a book", this file is just a very brief summary.

Good luck,

zappaz1@excite.com

From: UsManiacs Sent: December 18, 1999 Message 4 of 13

Thanks, I will check it out :) I hope my experience though gives hope to other female fistees who have no choice but to have that surgery--as in my case--yet don't want to give up fisting! Gina

From: zappaz1 Sent: December 18, 1999 Message 5 of 13

Gina, as you are already doing it with no big problems post surgery, so you are past the stage of seeking medical advice about doing it :-)

I truly wish you had gone to a different doctor who would have done the newer Supra Cervical Hysterectomy that I mentioned in the File section under "Surgery and Depth". "Many years ago" we always did Supra Cervical Hysterectomy and had no problems with destroying the nerves to the cervix and upper vagina to hurt that particular (but important) part of orgasms. At that time Vaginal Hysterectomy was reserved for those that needed a lot of repair work and didn't mind the shortening of the vagina. Also, using that old method, the support of the upper vagina remains strong and there is no hole into the abdominal cavity that requires "healing" as the cervix is left in. We quit doing that type between 1950 and 1965 when the safety of removing the cervix improved.

I regret that the standard then became panhysterectomy (or total hysterectomy with removal of the "cervix" along with the body of the uterus). Just recently doctors are beginning to see their mistake and are starting to do Supra Cervical or Subtotal hysterectomies again !!! These "new" operations are even done by laparoscope, making it a "one day" in the hospital surgery. It seems to me that a lot of things return in cycles... especially when the first part of the cycle was the "best method". Doctors that do this type are "ideal" for those that want to continue or start fisting "after" the surgery. If I were a lady and fit that description, I would call and ask to speak to several that do this "New" (actually very old) Method, and discuss things before I even made an appointment.

Gina, you could email me sometime at

zappaz1@excite.com

From: UsManiacs Sent: December 19, 1999 Message 6 of 13

The problem in many cases is that they want to remove the cervix because of the risk of cancer, and also because if they leave it in it is possible to have light monthly periods! Even without a uterus. I guess enough uterine tissue is still there to cause some problems.
In my case I could have kept it but did not know it was an option until afterwards when it was too late. Mine was done as an emergency surgery so I didn't have time to research it either.
Now I recommend all women thinking of this check out www.hystersisters.com, great support site, but of course fisting is not discussed there.
I have been through many different gyn's and none were confortable discussing sexual issues. I could not find a professional I could consult. Sad really.
Gina

From: zappaz1 Sent: December 19, 1999 Message 7 of 13

The reason that the Supra cervical hysterectomy is coming back "now"... after all these years is: 1. the quick recovery 2. the very low low complication rate 3. the preservation of the nerves and blood vessels to the cervix and upper vagina 4. the increase support tissue for the upper vagina 5. the lack of shortening of the vagina and 6. that studies show women are more orgasmic after the method when the nerves are not destroyed. 7. it gives more honest docs a chance to keep doing pap smears (the dishonest ones keep doing them even if your cervix has been removed.. sort of like taking a pap smear from you mouth or your ass *smile*).

For purposes of this club we can add: 8. It usually does not interfere with continued or starting new fisting :-)

The argument also is that the risk of cancer leaving the cervix in is very very low with occasional pap smears, and that bleeding from a cervix is almost nil with the methods now used. Personally I thought years ago that the method should be revived.

Zappaz@excite.com

From: UsManiacs Sent: December 21, 1999 Message 8 of 13

Zap,
one correction. Women without cervix's still need pap smears but not as often. It seems the top of the now new vaginal cuff still contains uterine tissue which can still be test as an early warning for cancer. I'm not sure if they still need to do this when the ovaries are gone as well. It would seem not.
Gina

From: zappaz1 Sent: December 28, 1999 Message 9 of 13

Thank you Gina for you correction, but I was referring to doing pap smears "routinely" after the cervix was removed. Of course there are a few "non-routine" cases on whom I would recommend doing pap smears after a total hysterectomy.

Those are on women who had a hysterectomy for the "non-routine" (cervical cancer and dysplasia)... even after the cervix is removed, as very rarely cancer can come back or restart in or near the suture line where the cervix was removed. Such "recurrent" cancer or pre-cancerous disease is very rare, but I would still recommend continued pap smears in those rare non-routine cases. Another very very rare condition is where women had exposure to a formerly used drug (diethytstilbestrol) which can cause vaginal type cancer.

I suppose if you have "money to burn", doing various routine pap smears from your ears, mouth, and/or nose would be just fine.

However, many doctors still do "routine" pap smears on women who had panhysterectomy for routine non-cancerous conditions knowing the chance of a positive test is now near zero. It is harmless to routinely do such testing (except to your pocket book).

It is just that many other doctors frown on this (as I do) as "price gouging. With the ability to detect ovarian cancer now sealed up by removing the cervical pathway to the abdomen, there is very very little chance of this producing helpful test results. If the price of the test is a concern, you might ask your own doctor if you "need" the test... and "why".

zappaz1@excite.com

From: UsManiacs Sent: December 29, 1999 Message 10 of 13

Another reason they still recommend regular check-ups by a gyn even after hysterectomy, and even with low cancer risk, is that the bi-annual pap smears and exams will also discover any other problems such as bacterial infections, STD's, and other things a woman might not know is going on until she has an exam. Just because her uterus is gone doesn't mean she no longer has "female" problems which a gyn needs to attend to.

I was told my regular Dr. could also perform this service, but many women including myself, feel more comfortable seeing a gyn for female issues since they specialize and know what to look for.

Gina

From: zappaz1 Sent: December 29, 1999 Message 11 of 13

Yes, regular "pelvic exams" are very important especially if you still have your ovaries after a hysterectomy.

Ovarian cancer is still a leading cause of death in women. It is very difficult to detect anyway and with the cervix removed and no pathway to get ovarian cancer cells to the outside to use a pap smear on, only symptoms, a bimanual or other (non pap smear) testing will find it.

If you have a family history of it, imaging and blood testing at intervals is important.

Even so, most ovarian cancers are detected late and that is the reason it has a high death rate after its discovery.

From: BAdams22 Sent: January 17, 2000 Message 12 of 13

I am so glad that I found this site and these answers to my questions. As of yet I haven't had a total fist in me, but I did have a hyst. back in 95 and now I do seem to have less depth. My husband did try it on me once, but it just didn't seem to work and it hurt inside. Now that I have read much more on it and have read what is printed here I realize that doing this is not a one night thing...you have to get your body to adjust to it even if you have had 4 kids. Right? I guess I just keep trying and I would love to find a woman to share this with and start out with smaller hands. :-) Thanks for this site.

From: UsManiacs Sent: January 21, 2000 Message 13 of 13

Hi BAdams,
If you lived near me I'd love to practice on each other :) I have been trying to find a girlfriend for awhile now! Yes you do need to go at it slow and gentle. It's a progressive thing, not an all-at-once thing. I have less depth now also but really don't miss that inch, LOL
Gina