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Message: "Historic" fisting

From: drfaustus Sent: 15 April 2002 Message 1 of 26

Hi all,

I am curious about the "history" of vaginal fisting, since it seems to have surfaced to the public/underground only a couple of years ago. I never read stories/info or saw pics that are older than about 30 years. Of course fisting must have been enjoyed long before that! Any hints to texts, websites, pics or personal experiences would be welcome.

Btw., the first time I ever read about "fisting" was in a german feminist book on erotic stories/subjects. They shunned fisting as a lesbian SM practice showing disrespect for women ...

Greetings

drfaustus

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 15 April 2002 Message 2 of 26

I can not recall the name of the movie, please anyone help me out here if you know. I believe it stared Marlin Brando. He played an Roman emperor and in the movie he at one point "punishes" someone by lubing his hand with butter and anal fisting him. Now of course they do not show the act, BUT, this would be an indication that "historians" believe fisting was around in ancient Roman times.

Soze

From: Joe Sent: 16 April 2002 Message 3 of 26

Out of curiosity I did an IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/) search on Marlon Brando. He was in Julius Caesar (1953). Could it be that movie?

I first heard about vaginal fisting in a Danish book of short erotic stories from about 1965, if I remember right. I've never heard of any references to fisting that go farther back than that, although I agree that it's probably something that's been done since cavemen and cavewomen started to get bored with the missionary position.

From: NadMaximus Sent: 17 April 2002 Message 4 of 26

I think the movie you're thinking about is that version of Caligula that Bob Guccione made. Malcolm McDowall plays the emporer and does just as you describe - after first deflowering the man's new bride while he watched.

A very odd movie, considering the cast. It's hard to find a version of it that isn't editted down to nothing, but the fisting scene is not explicit in any of them (none of the 'name' actors did anything explicit). One of the heavily editted versions is actually shown on cable, though, so you probably saw it there...

-nad

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 17 April 2002 Message 5 of 26

I am sure this is exactly the right movie....

So my point was....

Were the writers of the movie going by some factual account of history? Or were they just throwing in their own little perversion into the movie?

In any event, someone seems to think that fisting was around in Ancient Roman times.

Soze

From: Chris & Julie Sent: 17 April 2002 Message 6 of 26

This is an interesting topic over which I have also pondered, to some extent. The whole sexuality spectrum is subject to debate as to whether certain practices are derived from natural instinct or from enlightenment (perhaps from this Website).

However, my perspective of what is instinctive is possibly not yours. For example, as a very young boy I would commando-crawl into my parent's bedroom on Sunday mornings, while they were still in the bed, to sniff the crotch of my mother's discarded panties. Was that natural instinct? I think it was. Also as a young boy I would have jumped at the chance to sniff, lick and suck pussy, although at that time in my life I didn't know that Cunnilingus existed as a conventional sexual practiced. Is that natural instinct? Obviously!

I am not sure if Fisting is (at least from my perspective) an instinctive practice but fingering? Yes, I think it definitely is. It follows that if Fisting is an extension of 'heavy fingering' then it could also be an instinctive practice but, from my innocent perception, I didn't even know it was possible until a few years ago. Having said that, I am convinced that Fisting could well have been practiced by tribes, communities, folks somewhere on Earth as a pre-natal aid for expectant mothers (any tribal headmen reading this might pass comment).

Fisting is a bonding experience. I feel closer to my wife since we have added fisting to our repertoire (see our Member Intro) and actually feel more love and affection for her because of it. Make what you will from that, but it can't be bad for a relationship when it brings a couple closer together. I think that maybe stone-age couples fisted for both sexual enjoyment and to help the woman prepare for birth.

Thanks for this great Website guys.
C

From: XavierLegolas Sent: 17 April 2002 Message 7 of 26

The name of that movie was Caligula. Peter O'tool was in it.
It's from Penthouse Magazine. I've seen 2 versions of it. One is rated R and shows basic T&A. The other is not rated NR and has a lot of gnarly hardcore. Overall it's a good movie.

Mike

From: drfaustus Sent: 17 April 2002 Message 8 of 26

Hi Chris & Julie,

we also feel that fisting is a deeply bonding experience. I do think many couples must have discovered it since stone age (man is curious). But it probably is not a very common experience naturally, but has only recently gained more fans due to its propagation through the porn industry/BDSM/lesbian communities. I never read anything about it in any report on human sexuality.

I would not call it "instinctive" like licking - which many animals, including primates, also enjoy. The only animals capable of fingering should be other primates, which as far as I know enjoy it as well. But I guess that man is the only animal capable of fisting, since the human vagina is subjected to much heavier stretching during birth process than any other, due to the very large head of the infant. Also fisting still usually needs some preparation, since most women are not "loose" enough to be fisted spontaneously (but we usually all don't know women who have born a dozen or more babies). As well, most couples need a lot of lube (we don't, since we only practice fisting together with lots of oral play, but sometimes I almost run out of saliva ...), which was probably hard to get in stone age.

Best regards

drfaustus

From: Chris & Julie Sent: 17 April 2002 Message 9 of 26

Hi,
I just want to pick up on the : "I never read anything about it in any report on human sexuality.".

Personally, I don't think that fact counts for very much. As a comparison, (and from what I have read) Female Ejaculation seems to be a vague issue in the medical community and indeed some doctors apparently say that it is non-existent or people are confusing it for urine.

I can tell you here and now that my wife has been gushing and squirting over and around me for as long as I can remember ... and I am not getting wizzed upon. So, if the reports on FE are to go by then Fisting could also be a 'head in the sand' topic for some of the (so called) experts.
C

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 19 April 2002 Message 10 of 26

Secondary thought to this most interesting question....

When was the first time YOU learned about fisting, and what was your reaction?

I remember the very first two pictures I saw regarding fisting. I believe it was in 96 (not that long ago I know). I was just learning about newsgroups. I don't remember which group I was in at the time, but I downloaded two pictures which I still have. They were those "catsuit" leather outfit girls. One picture was a woman taking a fist anally, and the other was a double fisting (hell of a way to be introduced!).

I remember thinking that it had to be fake. The anal fisting was probably a fake arm without a hand, and the double fisting, if real, was probably a VERY small woman with VERY small hands. Although I doubted the authenticity of the pictures, I was very aroused, and started looking into the idea.

Of course what I found not only surprised me, it laid aside my doubts and started me on a quest to experience fisting first hand (pun intended).

I am happy to say that after breaking the ice with my wife about the subject, we have been enjoying fisting for a couple of years.

Soze

From: BelfryBat Sent: 20 April 2002 Message 11 of 26

The Egyptians practised birth control by placing a small copper wire-wrapped pebble inside the uterus. Now how do you suppose they got it up there? Through the ages man has always been a rather inventive creature, that's how we arrived where we are today. This present embarrassment considering anything sexual that we now assume to be unusual originates from the Victorian era. Before then people were quite open about sexuality. Underpants were only invented a couple of hundred years ago. Before then nobody ever saw any necessity for covering up their "naughty bits". My sentiments exactly :>)

From: Tyjardia Sent: 21 April 2002 Message 12 of 26

Hi Chris and Julie,

Some context to this response first. I am a doctor, though I do not practice now, so I know the difference between urine and vaginal lubrication. I am also a woman who lubriactes a lot, and I mean A LOT. I keep a sanitry towel in my bag for those times when I get aroused while I am out, because other wise things would show !

I think you can divide female ejaculation into two groups.
1. Urinary incontenace: the woman looses some bladder control during orgasm or extreme sexual activity.
2. Those of us who produce fair amounts of lube squirt it during contraction of the vaginal floor. In my case I notice it is more marked when I am on my back and it ' pools ' in the dip in the curve of my vagina. Despite my girlfriend and I fisting, I make sure that I excercise so my muscles can really grip and squeeze, and this seems to just make me squirt even more.

regards
tyjardia

From: zappaz1 Sent: 22 April 2002 Message 13 of 26

Hi Tyjardia

Good to see another doctor on the community, although I am retired now. I remember on the former Club, when Excite was the Host before we moved here, we had endless discussions on this very subject.

At that time the mechanism that I suggested for the source of this fluid... was just as you mention.

The chemical analysis of this "ejaculation" fluid shows to be very different when it contains urine or when it is fluid from the glands of lubrication. But both types have been found and I believe sometimes there is a mix of both types of fluid. Certainly when very huge amounts of fluid is ejected, it is urine, but many times it can be glandular fluid.

From: Tpb Sent: 22 April 2002 Message 14 of 26

I think you have your movies mixed. In Last Tango in paris Brando lubes himself and the female co-star with butter before anal penetration but I have never seen any suggestion that there was fisting involved.

Tim

From: Chris & Julie Sent: 26 April 2002 Message 15 of 26

To pick-up on Kayser Soze's "the first time YOU learned about fisting", the following is taken out of our Member Intro contribution (March 2001):

- Extract:
With ignorant innocence I thought for years that videos describing ‘Fist Fucking’ were presenting males masturbating (jerking off) and I consequently had no interest in viewing them. We first became ‘enlightened’ to fisting when I acquired a black & white video of nostalgic porno, which partially dated back to the first days of silent movies. Julie loves those old films and I was most pleasurably surprised (or pleasantly shocked) when watching "A Night at Ali’s" (as we call it). A visiting lady (of dubious morals) is given a welcome drink by a gentleman clad in Caftan and Fez, who then proceeds to give her an erotic shave, which is then followed by him slipping a hand into her pussy and performing a rigorous fist fuck. Wow! I could hardly believe my eyes and from that point onwards, I wanted ‘in’ to the ‘Grand Opening’.
- End Extract:

The misconception I held for "fisting" reminds me of when we were in Berlin years ago and and went together (Julies suggestion) into one of those 1-person booths to spontaneously see a brief porno for DM 5 or similar. One of the option buttons was indeed 'fisting' and I thought then "what on earth would I want to see blokes masturbating for?". However, if I had pressed that button I would most probably be further along into the Art by now.

Have a good weekend.
C

From: drfaustus Sent: 26 April 2002 Message 16 of 26

I would sure love to see these old movies! Can you give me any details to its title, production etc.? I really like old erotic/porn pics or erotic/porn art. What a different atmosphere to most of todays industrial output!

drfaustus

From: zappaz1 Sent: 27 April 2002 Message 17 of 26

I have seen some 19th Century medical articles that briefly mention the practice of vaginal fisting .

I once had some old medical books from the late 1800's that had drawings.

The subject in the past was little discussed until the internet... and now ladies find out how much fun they are missing out on... LOL Also over the last few years, as dildos increased in diameter, the next step came naturally.

World wide, Vaginal Fisting is now rapidly growing and has become an accepted sexual practice in more and more cultures and societies. Years ago male anal fisting was more prevalent, but vaginal fisting if by far more common now.

I think this is due to the recent discovery by more and more women how much pleasure is connected with vaginal fisting and stretching and realizing they can keep their muscles tight by Kegel exercises even if they stretch greatly.

From: drfaustus Sent: 3 May 2002 Message 18 of 26

Hi Zappaz,

whenever you stumble over any of these old pictures again - feel free to post them here! No problem with copyright, BTW ;)

Greetings

drfaustus

From: zappaz1 Sent: 3 May 2002 Message 19 of 26

drfaustus,

The pictures I referred to were in a large set of medical books published in the late 1800's.

I finally threw them away about twenty years ago. In a series of pictures, they illustrated how doctors may insert their entire hand in order to correct retroversion of the uterus (tilted
backward womb). They mentioned that doing this was the very best way to move the uterus
to a forward position when it is tilted backward, but they added that it could not be done on
everybody, but with slight discomfort could be done on very many women.

The old book concluded that this is best done where the hand can easily be inserted
without pain.

So even at that time a fairly large percentage of women could accept an entire hand without
pain.

In practice, I found this to be true, but only did it if the hand insertion required very little pressure with no discomfort at all. In my practice that was only about one in twenty exams,
and usually that was about nine or ten total hand insertions a week. But that amounted to thousands of hand insertions over a period of many years, only doing it where there was no
discomfort at all... as was my policy.

This is the very best way to discover pelvic disease and do a thorough exam. It requires a little
more time. As many fingers are inserted as are comfortable and mild downward pressure is
held for about a minute to see if there is enough relaxation to allow the whole hand to be inserted. I am sure with pressure more than one in twenty could do it, but I never did hand
insertions unless it was easy and there was no discomfort. Naturally you can find a lot
more during this type of exam.

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 8 May 2002 Message 20 of 26

Speaking of old videos, I have this wonderful video of Linda Lovelace getting fisted... mmmmm

Soze

From: porcupine Sent: 29 Oct. 2002 Message 21 of 26

I'm weighing in a little late, but.........I first heard about fisting some thirty years ago in letter to the Playboy Advisor. A reader wrote in that he had had such an experience with his girlfriend. I remember having difficulty thinking about anything else for while, but it was mostly just me thinking it was probably impossible but very exciting to think about.

Ten or so years later I bought the video "Candystripers." In that movie a man double fisted a very nice looking woman with his hands in the "prayer" position (palm to palm with fingers straight.) As I'm sure you know, fisting in this method requires an extremely large pussy.

It was many years later that I had the pleasure of fisting my lover. At last my fantasy became reality. Now my reality is a fantasy.

It was also in that same issue of Playboy that there was a continuing discussion about whether or not it was proper to masturbate, with many experts, wives and husbands contributing. At last, the final letter was from a man who stated simply: "I discussed it with his wife, who feels as I do, that it's my soap, and my dick, and I can wash it as fast as I want to."

From: prettyb214 Sent: 29 Oct. 2002 Message 22 of 26

That nice looking slender blonde with sggy breast and very loose cunt and asshole is Eileen Welles. Sh was double-fisted by Nancy Hoffmann in Candystrippers.

From: prettyb214 Sent: 29 Oct. 2002 Message 23 of 26

Furthermore Fisting is as old as human civilisation. If you go to the Hidu Temples in Kathmandu or those in Tamil-Nadu in Southern India, it won't be difficult for you to see fine stone carvings of women being fisted, double-fisted and footed by men. They are 2000 years old.

From: Joe Sent: 29 Oct. 2002 Message 24 of 26

> If you go to the Hidu Temples in Kathmandu or those in Tamil-Nadu in Southern India, it won't be difficult for you to see fine stone carvings of women being fisted, double-fisted and footed by men.

Neat! Does the local turist office mention this in their turist brochures? "Come visit our pornographic stone carvings!" :-)

From: cookie Sent: 29 Oct. 2002 Message 25 of 26

The topic of fisting history has interested me for a long time as I'm sure it does most members, I remember several years ago a contest in hustler magazine for the largest vagina and a woman they called the florida sinkhole won LOL.I believe they posted a picture in an issue with her taking a fire extinguisher. Any way what I wanted to ask is " where could I see a copy of that silent movie or could you post it in member videos?" Thankyou Cookie

From: Joe Sent: 30 Oct. 2002 Message 26 of 26

Just copying Blitzppp's message from another thread. I assume that he meant to post it on this thread.

From Blitzppp Sent: 10/30/2002 4:31 AM
Surely fisting goes back many thousands of years.

I remember reading an old book on human sexuality that discussed the history of the practice.

In one section they mentioned that some of the most ancient dildos ever found came from prehistoric China and were in many graduated sizes, with the largest being 40 cm around (or about 5 inches in diameter).

I wonder if those objects are now valuable ancient artifacts and would fetch a high price if brought to auction, and if the larger ones would bring a higher bid?