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Message: Fantasy and Vaginal Stretching

From: Jimm Sent: 14 Nov. 2005 Message 1 of 10

Some people who have this fantasy might even wish they could switch to another fantasy that lets them enjoy sex, but for good reasons, I think they might as well accept what they have.

I think there many many more who enjoy vaginal stretching fantasy than society admits to, so just accept what you have.

Many studies into the sex drive of humans show sex is mental and depends on fantasies from a "very early age". In those who have mild or even huge vaginal stretching fantasies, as with most men with any sex fantasy, studies show their fantasy can not be easily changed during their entire life. Men and some women get a primary sexual fantasy at an early age, sort of like the bonding of animals that happens at a very early age, often between 3 and 5 years of age for a primary sex fantasy in humans. This bonding and fixation of their sex fantasy is binding and usually permanent. It can take on a vast variety of seemingly irrational forms, but it sticks for life. It can be a healthy thing, but life is better when you work with it instead of against it.

Such bonding especially in men, it is what their sex drive for the rest of their life requires for sexual satisfaction. In other words in is between their ears and not what is in their underware. They might at times even wish they could change their fantasy, but because of the early age of onset, their strong fantasy-bonding will not allow that to happen..

In the case of women, sometimes it happens in exactly the same bonding manner, but more commonly, women grow more sexually over time without such early bonding. Women often grow sexually to be able to experience sexuality even more intensely than men, but in a different way. They tend to crave more attention and respect and eroticism. They often form a bonding with whatever their mate enjoys. They probably are more like a musical instrument that sings best when properly treated and played upon. With relationships women tend to seek a faithful, attentive, and respectful long term partner.

This is the reason I love this Group, because not only catering to the short term fantasy satisfactions of men, it is equally respective of both the physical and mental needs of women. Because women who discover a love of vaginal stretching are not easily paired with partners, any formed relationship tends to be better than most, as usually both parters love and respect each other.Too many sites that feature the subject matter of this Group are disrespectful of women, cater to men, and are often violent toward women.

Joe and Cindy created an outlet for both sexes and even REQUIRE proper respect for everyone here... thank you Cindy and Joe for your selfless service to the Group.

From: frogator Sent: 15 Nov. 2005 Message 2 of 10

I second that. I thought I was crazy when I figured out I loved fisting, and I had no place to ask questions. Then I found this site. It turns out I am not the only one who enjoys it, and I do not feel so crazy after all. Thanks to Joe and Cindy, me and my wife have a bunch of fun, and know we are not the only ones in the world that like it. After all this is not a subject you talk to your friends about. So I second what Jimm said......

From: Jimm Sent: 15 Nov. 2005 Message 3 of 10

I think we all here can be glad for this Group that understands that our fantasies are just normal parts of us and we don't have to try to explain why we enjoy what we do. I think the important thing is not to change our fantasy, but to try and direct our fantasy in such a way as to respect the rights of others. In that way they are healthy fantasies and are good for us. That is what this Group is all about "mutual respect" and "tolerance".

Studies of human sexuality have proven that these early bonding-fantasies from our very early childhood carry over and are part of us for the rest of our lives (no matter how seemingly strange or irrational they are). We should just enjoy what we have and not be critical of others who have different fantasies. Only a very very few sexual fantasies are antisocial and can not be made or be directed to be mutually respectful. The very worst may be pedophilia, which is a hopeless fantasy as the cure rate for pedophiles is near zero. Thank goodness our fantasies are of the healthy type. Others are also harmless and can be respectful of others... but like most are irrational. For example, what makes sense about worshiping feet.

We don't need to explain as long as we realize the bonding to our fantasy was made at a innocent age of 2 to 6 years of age. Knowing that fact helps us not to try and explain, make excuses for, or rationalize our fantasies, but just enjoy them.

From: Joe Sent: 17 Nov. 2005 Message 4 of 10

I sure don't understand where my sexual inclinations come from, but it is definitely true that it's mostly what is going on in my head that provides my sex drive and my release.

For women I believe that emotions are involved to a larger extent.

> I thought I was crazy when I figured out I loved fisting, and I had no place to ask questions. Then I found this site.

That's partly why Cindy and I created this group. Cindy was very worried when we started fisting (at my request) and wondered if it was "normal" or "dangerous", etc., etc. Then the Internet came into more common use and we could find others that shared our passion, and that was a great relief for Cindy. Later, we wanted to provide the same service for others.

> The very worst may be pedophilia, which is a hopeless fantasy as the cure rate for pedophiles is near zero.

Pedophilia is illegal in most civilized societies, and should be in our opinion.

> Thank goodness our fantasies are of the healthy type.

Fisting is illegal in some American states, and pornography is illegal in a lot of places. Furthermore, repressive movements in some areas are trying to make pornography more illegal or more difficult to obtain.

We'd like to urge people to be willing to voice their support for what we see as healthy activities between consenting adults, and to urge politicians or others to understand this. In particular, to oppose any attempts to put fisting and pornography in general in the same category as pedophilia.

For example, the apparent impending closure of adult groups here at MSN is presumably an offshoot of the anti-pornography policies of the current American administration. If you live in the USA then please let your politicians know where you stand on these issues.

Joe (and Cindy)

From: Jimm Sent: 17 Nov. 2005 Message 5 of 10

I agree with Joe that we should work hard to keep our fantasy far apart from the antisocial ones... as we must stress that ours is a consenting, respectful, healthy, and non-violent activity. We always must divorce ourselves and our activities from rape fantasies, pedophiliac fantasies and violent sexual predatory fixation-fantasies that are harmful to others and society. Unfortunately those like most fantasies are very very difficult to change, resulting in society even requiring "registration" of some offenders as they can be a threat to society.

Thank goodness most fantasies are like ours... of the healthy type.

Outside our Group, certain people do not understand that most vaginal stretching and fisting is just like the thousands of other sexual fixation-fantasies that are actually healthy and mutually enjoyed. Everyone to some degree has sexual fantasies. Anyone who bothered to check out our Group would know we are in the category that stresses mutual respect, love, and enjoyment. We are not one of those very few antisocial type sexual activities.

Sex researchers understand our benign nature and I hope we can convey to any legal entities the same understanding. Certainly with time people will be understanding but I second Joe in hoping we all try to point out the distinction between consensual, respectful, vaginal fisting along with the thousands of other "healthy" fantasies that everybody has.

There are only a few bad eggs that need legal measures, but fortunately they are very few and those are the non-consensual violent activities that are remain truly antisocial.

Occasionally with many healthy fantasies, there is an imitation violence or "play violence" which is sometimes a "mutual turn on" and is not an antisocial actovity when and if it is done "in fun" and without injury, and where both parties enjoy the participation.

Thanks again Joe and Cindy for keeping this Group free of antisocial activity.

From: Kneebone Sent: 22 Nov. 2005 Message 6 of 10

Hey Joe, you mentioned that fisting is illegal in some American cities. Do you know offhand which states those are?

As long as we're on the subject, any idea of how legal/illegal fisting is in Australia (Sydney, if we need to be specific)? Hopefully they're a little more relaxed there. My wife comes from Down Under; I'm interested because we have loose plans (no pun intended) to move there in the next 3-5 years.

Thanks!

From: Joe Sent: 22 Nov. 2005 Message 7 of 10

> Hey Joe, you mentioned that fisting is illegal in some American cities. Do you know offhand which states those are?

Actually, I may have written something that isn't 100% correct.

What I do know is that porn videos featuring fisting is illegal in some states. That's why it's harder to find fisting videos in the States, because the porn producers don't want to have legal problems and don't want to have to ensure that certain videos don't end up getting sold in certain states.

I'm afraid I don't know which states have this problem.

I've also read that for example homosexual acts and anal sex are illegal in some states, although not enforced normally. I think Texas was one of the states mentioned in this connection.

I then extrapolated from the fisting videos being illegal in some states, and anal sex being illegal in some states, and assumed that fisting itself is probably illegal in these states. But on reflection I'm not really sure.

Joe

From: cheekyhowcouldyou Sent: 23 Nov. 2005 Message 8 of 10

hi kneebone
i am in perth west australia and can tell you that here it is not illegal here , so i would assume that the same goes for sydney, they tend to like the same laws for each state here.
leigh

From: Kneebone Sent: 23 Nov. 2005 Message 9 of 10

Thanks Joe.

If you or anyone comes across some references online which give a state-by-state breakdown of which activities and videos are considered legal/illegal, that would certainly be an interesting read. As luck would have it, I've been living/working in Texas for 2 years now and Kansas before that. I'm a Canadian citizen, and while I know they're more conservative in this (part of the) country, I continue to be amazed when I see something obfuscated on TV. It's not the fault of the TV station, of course, but the fear of legal retribution. And as surprised as I might be, my Down Under wife is even more surprised than I. What's amusing is that there are strip joints here just like anywhere else. And the boobjobs? Simply stellar, and more delightfully common than anywhere else I've lived. (I know some folks will cringe at that last comment, but both my wife and I think it's pretty cool.) The female breast wields considerable power in this country; if it's clothed, it's used in sales and advertising, and if it's unclothed (even for breastfeeding) there's a public outcry. Therein lies the peculiar dichotomy which is American culture. Having said that, still quite pleased to be living and working here.

Sorry for the tangent folks. We now return you to the regular fisting theme. ;-)

From: Kneebone Sent: 23 Nov. 2005 Message 10 of 10

Hi Leigh,

Thanks for your input on this. (My wife's late father lived close to Perth, in Mandurah.) I mentioned your post to my wife, and she said that the government there pretty much dictates the age at which (both homo/hetero) consenting adults may be allowed to engage in activities, and not what those activities will be.

I also have a pretty clear understanding that the politicians in Aussie tend to be more answerable to the mistakes they make; in the USA (and Canada, for that matter) if a politician makes a mistake, there might be criticisms from the opposing party, but the media remains fairly neutral. My understanding of Aussie is that in a similar situation there, even the news anchors will offer personal opinions, exclaiming "He's an idiot" or whatever. You'd never get that here. I heard one story from a former co-worker where one Aussie politician got called to task for calling a member of the opposition a fuckwad. When the media interviewed her and asked her why she said that, her response was "Because he *is* a fuckwad." Again, you'd never get that here. ;-)

Once again, thanks for your helpful info, and once again, sorry for the wild tangent. Let's get back to fisting! :-D

Cheers.