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Message: OH REALLY

From: drmmkr Sent: 15 Jan. 2002 Message 1 of 14

How do you find women that are not being paid some large sum of money to enjoy the fantasies that you are discribing here in these pages as I have to meet one yet that does anyof these things, none like there boobs squeezed, twats streched, clits clamped, or their butts blown open........................When you approach anyone they say that is not enjoyable to them so how do you find someone who says it is enjoyable?

It is a very safe bet to say if you live 1000 miles apart and there is no chance of ever running into each other you would like anything, I can't find a person that lives in the same state as me or any where else that goes along with the philosophies of this site or at least anyone who will come forward and admit to it although it is hard to think that you can really do all of this stuff. Don't get me wrong I like the pix but I would like to see it or do it myself????????????

From: Joe Sent: 17 Jan. 2002 Message 2 of 14

drmmkr,

I'm having a hard time figuring out how to answer your message.

Let me tell you a bit about my experiences with vaginal fisting. The idea was a very strong fantasy for me ever since my early twenties, but I never experienced it until I was around 40 years old. During this period I saw vaginal fisting depicted in many porn films and later in porn videos, but never experienced it myself. This was a very frustrating period of my life.

Learning to have a good relationship with a woman is a prerequisite for having a good sex life with a woman. Men and women have different priorities and different ways of looking at things. Most women need a lot of love and security before they feel like getting into advanced sexual activities or are able to enjoy them. A man who wants to go directly to the advanced sexual activities will not meet much success.

During the last approx. 17 years I've had relationships with four women which included vaginal fisting. None of these women had ever done vaginal fisting previously, and none of them would have said that they found the idea enjoyable if they had been asked. But in all four of these cases a good relationship developed first, and then the good sex, and then we got into vaginal fisting. Three of these women (this includes Cindy of course) really loved it once they got used to it, while the fourth one thought it was OK but not all that great.

The women who love vaginal fisting tell me that it gives them the greatest vaginal pleasure that they have ever experienced. But it does take time, often months or more, to get to the point where it is possible. After this it takes some additional time for the woman to get really used to it and for the man and woman together to determine exactly how it should be done to maximize the woman's enjoyment.

In other words, vaginal fisting is not something that you ask a woman about on your first date and then drop her if she doesn't tell you that she likes it. Many women probably have never even heard of it, and I don't think women want to talk about this activity openly and I do think that many are scared of trying, not knowing that they could gain great satisfaction if they tried.

You indicate a frustration with not being able to find what you are looking for, and I sympathize. Women tell me that they are also frustrated, for example a lot of women find it almost impossible to find a man who is really interested in satisfying them sexually. Food for thought?

In life it can be extremely difficult finding a matching partner for our needs, and in particular our sexual needs. If you are looking for such a partner, then I wish you all the luck in the world, and my advice would be to take things slowly and gradually and build up other aspects of your relationship – these aspects would enhance the possibility of engaging in such a personal thing as fisting.

I can assure you that some women love it.

Yours,
Joe

From: drmmkr Sent: 18 Jan. 2002 Message 3 of 14

Joe;

In response to your answer thankyou for your answer but it is not the fact I don't gain a good loving relationship, I guess I can't find the right women, I have been loving one woman for 25 years and I think that is plenty of time to get into the trenches as far as sex goes. I'll admit that some of them are only a few years old but none of them enjoy anything we have talked about. They don't want to have anything to do with BDSM, domination , or anything other than straight sex period. With that thought in mind how do you approach the unapproachable with a request that your are sure they will reject at the onset, if the women that you are presently going with don't even want to try how do you pick one who will, I've been looking for over 50 years now and at this late in the game I don't plan on spending 5-10 thousand dollars for a model to say boy that was fun or exciting, I get response from males with thoughts of grandure and all kinds of things to do but they have either not tried them or are dreamrs themselves, you on the otherhand have pictures to back up your words, I just want the actions to back up my thoughts.

Drmmkr

From: Kayser Soze Sent: 19 Jan. 2002 Message 4 of 14

I have no response other than wow :-(.

That's for you Drmmkr not your situation.

Soz

From: Joe Sent: 19 Jan. 2002 Message 5 of 14

Drmmkr,

I find it a bit difficult to understand some of the things you're saying.

It may sound like cheap philosophy, but one thing I think you should consider is that the fulfillment of sexual fantasies and desires, although very strong and driving, aren't required to live a full and satisfying life. I have been very lucky in meeting Cindy, who has fulfilled many of my fantasies far beyond what I dreamed of, as well as being a wonderful person in many other ways. But on the other hand I have some other desires which don't fit into our relationship, and which I don't expect I'll ever experience. Instead of focusing on these unfulfilled desires it makes much more sense to focus on the good things that I do have.

In both of your messages you've brought up the subject of paying money to achieve your fantasies. This isn't something I recommend, and it's probably also not relevant for you due to geographic distances, but there actually are a couple of prostitutes in the Copenhagen area that advertise that they will let their customers fist them for a price, and I believe that their prices are around $200 for this "service". This may also be possible elsewhere, as I think that fisting is slowly becoming more common.

Yours,
Joe

From: drmmkr Sent: 19 Jan. 2002 Message 6 of 14

Joe;

No pun intended, and I don't need philosophical advice I guess What I am looking for is input from females or males as to how do you get these women to do your fantasies without paying them to do them..............I'll tell you what I have tried so far and as you well know some of these thing take an out of pocket expense to set up, OK???? I made a dungeon to play in, a room completely devoide from all others, with all of the accrudements there to, whips, chains, tables, ropes the whole nine yards, including mood lighting and the whole works, no-good. So I tore it down and sold off the stuff. I've got a bed that is actually a room full from wall to wall to play in, I have a hot tub right off of that room to soak in, I have a huge from room 15 x 30 to play in, massage tables to lay on and explore on, toys to set the mood and most of them are retired from lack of use, what is the problem????? At this point I don't think the problem is that I havn't tried to set a fun place to play in I have so the only thing I have left is to shall we say for it, RIGHT????????? I guess I am looking for input like I said before to help ease my confusion????

From: Javier Sent: 20 Jan. 2002 Message 7 of 14

Hate to jump in this in midsteam, but DRMMKR-you scare me...and I'm a guy! I don't mean to sound rude, but after reading you last note it reminds me of a high school kid. You spend $$$ and made up your room, got all the "stuff" and then went out looking for a girl! Tried that in high school...didn't work out too well. Alot of this stuff comes down to trust between two people, and that only happens in a relationship. In most cases, it takes time to build that trust over gradual steps. Its sounds like you don't want to spend any time building trust or taking gradual steps. I can assure you that you will never experience any of the things you want (legally) because you are viewing a partner as a means to YOUR end versus mutual pleasure.

Imagine you are a woman walking in your place for the first time and seeing all the things you've described. Do you feel any trust...or affection....or anything besides a piece of meat for your pleasure? If I were her I would run out of there!! I would second Joe's advice.... If nothing else, stop wasting you money doing up various rooms. None of it will help your cause and will do more to hinder it. I've never heard anyone say "I really don't like you and don't want to have sex with you, but since you have a dungeon with whips I may as well stay and try them out"..... A "fun place to play in" is the last thing any woman cares about, but you don't seem to care\notice.

From: Cindy Sent: 20 Jan. 2002 Message 8 of 14

I can only say that I totally agree with Xavier.

Drmmkr, I might add that the free lunch that you want does not exist. We all pay in one way or another all through our lives whether we want to or not, but we do have a choice of currency. We can choose the currency of real concern for the well-being of another person, the currency of love and eagerness to please the other person, and the offer of putting aside our own wishes in order to make the other person feel good.

Alternatively, there's the currency of money, which should not necessarily be considered to be "bad". It can simply be used in situations where you have nothing else to offer in return for the desired services. For each woman there is the possibility of giving her something that she wants in return for what you want. Your challenge is to find out what.

Good luck.
Cindy

From: vikingdreamnz Sent: 18 Mar. 2002 Message 9 of 14

Back to basics. It does seem difficult to find like minded people in such a taboo area. I couldn't even find this site or any like it when I searched the msn directory. All the key words I tried came up with not found. A friends husband gave me the address (what a score!). My partner doesn't look at all comfortable with toys or fisting. His bottom lip sort of swelled and he looked really upset (though trying not to) - just too 'kinky' for him I think and it's put me off wanting it with him - makes me feel yuk. I yearn for it though. I guess maybe a club? I would've thought there'd be such things in Europe or the US 'cos you've got the population for it! How about a swingers club for a start. Once you start associating with sex focussed people - surely you'll meet someone eventually. I never thought I'd ever talk to anyone about it till my friends husband and I got talking about surfing the net and porn sites. It broke the ice enough for me to mention seeing all sorts even fisting. He straight away said he loved that and soon after told me about this site. He and his wife do it so it does happen. Just be subtle as you bring it in to conversation. And yes - trust is super important. You do worry about things going too far. Worst case scenarios and all that. It's a scary world when you don't know who you're dealing with. I haven't talked with anyone else about it. I read the contact ads but doubt I'd ever be daring enough to risk it with a stranger if an ad ever appeared for my locale. Good luck though - look how long Joe waited till he found Cindy and they clicked. Just don't scare off any potentials. Take it slow and easy. All the best.

From: Joe Sent: 18 Mar. 2002 Message 10 of 14

In retrospect, this was a pretty weird thread. "drmmkr" was apparently only talking about bondage and S/M while I mistakenly thought he was talking about fisting. After all, he had posted his message here at "Cindy and Joe", and vaginal fisting is what this site is all about. But I guess he'd seen the "Cindy Visits Joe's Dungeon" series of pics and/or the video clip, and that's why he started this thread here.

> All the key words I tried came up with not found.

This is more MSN stupidity. You used to be able to search for adult communities using the search mechanism, but last fall they changed that so adult communities are no longer searchable. It apparently has something to do with the changed political climate in the USA, what with the Republicans having "won" the last presidential election.

> His bottom lip sort of swelled and he looked really upset (though trying not to) - just too 'kinky' for him I think and it's put me off wanting it with him - makes me feel yuk.

That's too bad. Could you try to ease him into becoming more interested by showing him this web site, and trying to explain to him how important it is to you?

Yours,
Joe

From: mrjones Sent: 19 Mar. 2002 Message 11 of 14

I have read quite a bit if this conversation and let me tell you that if you go out looking for sex that is all you will get. My wife is one of those women that you can't seem to find. She loves to have her pussy streched and to have large objects inserted into her shaved snatch. She is the most loyal and devoted woman I have ever met and we love each other dearly. It took a long time for her to be comfortable about doing these things because she always believed that having a loose pussy was bad. It is the way women are raised. They are taught from child hood that a girl with a loose snatch is a slut and that slutty girls are somehow inferior to girls that conform to the general theme of how a proper woman should act.
We were togeather for a couple years before she felt comfortable using any toys at all let alone large objects or multiple finger insertions. At times I tried to have tried to con her into doing things she wasn't ready for by making her feel like she somehow was obligated to preform sexual "stunts" for me. Even as she was preforming my fantacies though something was missing because she was only doing these things for me and she was not really enjoying her self. It was kind of like eating cotton candy for a meal. It was sweet and and looked good at first but after I had had some I realised that it was empty of anything that was satisfying.
So I quit trying to prod her into doing things and just let things take their own course. Then she realised that I was happy with her even though she did not preform any "parlor tricks" for me. I can not say exactly what went on inside her head because that would be her story to tell but I do know for a fact that she started to loosen up (in more ways than one!) and began to enjoy sex more. Next thing I know she is asking me if there is anything I "special" that I would like her to do for me. I told her that I would like her to pick something that I can shove into her snatch and that I wanted her to pick it out. She went to the store and came out with a variety of vegetables (all of them relatively large) and a tube of lubricant. That night she fufilled a fantacy for me and I felt completely satisfied for the first time. Mostly because I think she was almost happier doing for me than I was in her doing it. She not only allowed me to stretch her cunt to its limits she encouraged it and enjoyed it. She finally felt good about herself doing something that she used to think only a slut would do.
Since then we have experienced with sex like it was and adventure. I confided in her that I fantacised about her being a slut and I mean a REAL SLUT. I told her that I would like to invite a friend over and take turns fingering and stretching her pussy. Then I said that I wanted to watch her fuck him. I expected her to say not just no but HELL NO. What ended up happening was better than I ever thought possible. She decided to give it a shot. Even though it was my idea I was still nervous as hell. I mean I had thought about letting someone fuck my girlfriend (now my wife) but to actually see it was a different thing. When it happened though she set my mind at ease. Because even while he was stroking his cock up and down her slit and preparing to fuck her she would look at me and tell me she loved me. When she looked at me I could tell by the look in her eyes that even though she enjoyed some strange cock inside her (fully protected of course) she was still mine through and through.
Now when we are in a kinky frame of mind I call her "My Own Little Slut". When I call her that it does not make her feel bad. Quite the opposite she is proud of being a slut for me. In return I am proud of her for being my slut. Not just for the wierd and kinky things she does for me but also for having enough confidence in herself, me, and our relationship to do them. When the mood is right she is the sluttiest girl in town. Let me give you an example. I have invited three or four friends over at a time and she has fucked them all. But not until after we have fingered her all at once (I have a picture of two of my friends and I with three fingers a piece in her twat, we were all streching her from different directions atreching her hole as wide as we could, she asked for the picture to be taken so she could see too), After some time spent in finger play and the KY is spread almost half way down her thighs we get to find things to ram into her eager twat. Anything goes as long as it is reasonably clean and smooth for example an eggplant, a softball bat, a couple of cucumbers, or even tool handles. Then we get to take turns trying to fist her. After all the foreplay it comes time for sex. We can keep her in the front room train fuck her until all the condoms are gone or she can go in the other room and give each of us a private session. Either way I always play the good host and let all the company have their turn before I take mine. We will often wait until everyone else is gone and then have sex. She tells me all about how she felt and how much of a slut she is for me. When she takes my friends in the other room to fuck them she will tell me tell me how many times each one fucked her. She will tell me if she got off or not and talk about how much we streched her. She brags to me now of being a slut and how big her pussy is.
The really cool thing is that she is probaly really is one of the sluttiest women in town when the time is right. Any other time she is the most loyal and loving partner a man could ask for. I can leave town for the evening and not wonder if she is cheating on me because I trust her. I know that no matter what she would never betray my trust. People that know both sides of our relationship are in awe of her. I couldn't count the number of times a friend has told me how lucky I am. They only dream of having a relationship as honest and close as ours.
OK now that I have run my mouth and bragged about my wife let me get to the point. You need to look for a relationship that has honest love, loyalty, and true commitment. You need to find a woman whom you love with all your heart and who loves you with all of hers. Then you need to be honest about how you feel about her and sex. Don't pressure her and don't expect anything. Make sure she knows for sure that you will love her just as much wheather she gets kinky for you or not. Let her now your sexual preferances and find out what her turn ons are. Make her feel good about herself and she will go to the ends of the earth to please you. Things like what my wife and I share or what Cindy and Joe share don't happen over night. Good things take time but they are worth it.

From: Chris & Julie Sent: 19 Mar. 2002 Message 12 of 14

That is a very interesting (and erotic) anecdote. With participating males and gang-sex, we indeed share similar fantasies but ours had a condition that the gentlemen must die immediately after the event.

We have not made much headway in converting that fantasy into reality.

Now dogs! … They don’t talk … Oops! Sorry about that. I just slipped into the other fantasy.

Have fun!

From: PumpeNZ Sent: 24 Mar. 2002 Message 13 of 14

Ah-ha!

A like-minded kiwi!!

Yippee!

Chris OUO

From: Morgoth Sent: 15 May 2002 Message 14 of 14

Chris & Julie - you know why dogs lick their balls? Cause they can't make a fist ! (slightly veiled masturbatory reference). Loved your little freudian slip, and would love to email (off the board) with you if you would be interested.

As to the remainder of the thread, I can empathize with someone who has spent alot of time in a relationship where the libidos is adjusted to wildly different settings...you only have three options. 1) suck it up and live with it. Not pleasant, but possible. 2) get the other person to adjust her setting. After a long time (in excess of 10 years), probably not possible. 3) move on. You run the risk of being alone, and hurting the one you leave, but only you can decide if it will be worth it.